THE CLAIM:
Star Destroyers can't withstand the energy from close proximity to stars
THE TRUTH:
"That is one big pile of shit."
VS Trekkies trot this one out and validate it using ONE incident in the novel, "Heir to the Empire". Of course, once again, when ALL the evidence is carefully examined, this belief is of course, false.
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Upper limits on Star Destroyer power can be derived from the official fact (from "Heir to the Empire") that ISDs cannot withstand the energy some distance from a bright star. Assuming a blue giant star (off the main sequence, the brightest stars known to science), it will have a surface temperature somewhere below 40,000K. This corresponds to a power output of less than— |
Absolutely incorrect. There is something intense and strange about Athega, but not because its simply "bright".
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What else could it be? Sure, it might be a star that is impossible by any understanding of science, but does it really need to be? |
Sure, if we want to rationalize all the other official data we have. Three Star Destroyers were parked in close proximity to seven blue giant stars in "Dark Apprentice" for an extended period of time.
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In the middle of a thick nebula. A nebual that would be absorbing some of the energy of the stars. |
Proof this was such a "thick" nebula it could suck up most of the energy from seven blue giant stars? This nebula was similar to the raging energies around the Tsoss Beacon station, which Star Destroyers didn't have a problem with, either.
"Darksaber" (Hardcover:)
When the worker droids completed the groundwork and installed high-efficiency radiation-shield generators, Daala brought the Firestorm into the ravening system, where hot gas swirled around them and shockwaves from stellar storms scrambled her sensors.pg.120-121: Tsoss Beacon transmitted its blind signal into the fiery soup of stars and gases near the heart of the deep core. The automated station had been constructed by droids and suicide crews on a planetoid scoured clean by an endless wash of radioactive storms and solar flares that swept the region.
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Of course, those three Star Destroyers may not have been as close to any of those stars as they were to Athega. Remember, a 10x increase in distance results in a 100x decrease in energy. Nebulae and chromospheres are also considered "dangerous" in Star Wars (ref. "Rebel Dawn", pg. 5) |
Hmm...let's check this information out:
"Rebel Dawn"
pg.5: Before it was discovered in Bespin's atmosphere, tibanna gas had usually been found in stellar chromospheres and nebular clusters--which made harvesting it hazardous, to say the least.
Smoking is hazardous too, yet the quote says nothing of nebulae and chromospheres being "dangerous" in general, as the Trekkie attempted to misrepresent here. There are scrap mining and recycling stations like Mendicat orbiting stars. Daala's Star Destroyers were near the center of that nebula, right where those seven stars were.
"Darksaber" (Hardcover:)
pg.300: "Mendicat was a scrap mining and recycling station." Madine glared toward Sulamar. "Because of his error in programming the orbital computers, the station went off course and fell into the sun."
Daala's Star Destroyer, supplied by Harrsk in "Darksaber", was in close orbit above "Harrsk's Planet" which was arguably as close to a red giant star as Nkllon was to Athega for an extended period of time.
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And hiding behind the planet, wasn't it? |
Nope, it sure wasn't:
"Darksaber" (Hardcover:)
Daala stood rigid on the bridge, staring out at the red giant star. Thick filters had been placed across the viewports so she could watch the blazing ocean of hot gas without blinking.
pg.65: She gave orders to the navigator, and the Firestorm edged to the front line of battleships. The three damaged Star Destroyers remained in eclipse, huddled in the shadow of Harrsk's hot world.pg.63: As the forces of Supreme Warlord Harrsk reeled from the attack, Admiral Daala found herself on the command bridge of the Imperial Star Destroyer Firestorm.
Daala brought the Firestorm into the heart of the deep core so active with radioactive storms and solar flares that the planetoid the Tsoss Beacon was on was said to be "scoured clean" by all the radiation. And this was all without modifications to the Star Destroyer, with the exception of thick filters over the viewports so she could stare at the red giant.
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I assumed Athega was pretty much the hottest, brightest, most energetic star possible, and the Star Destroyer was sitting on its surface. Obviously, a cooler red giant wouldn't be putting out as much energy, and a ship sitting some distance from it would be getting less of that. |
Taking into account all the relevent EU data, there must be something mighty fishy about Athega, because Star Destroyers don't seem to have a problem being in close proximity to or in direct sunlight of red giants, blue giants, and yellow suns.
"Dark Apprentice"
pg.342: The Sun Crusher's sensor panels became useless in the ionized discharge from the knot of blue-giant stars that illuminated the Cauldron Nebula.
He piloted the Sun Crusher toward the bloated super-giants at the heart of the nebula.
pg.343: Kyp increased the radiation shields on the Sun Crusher and approached the mammoth blue-giant stars, seething in their ocean of star material.
A screen popped up, displaying a diagram of closely orbiting spheres. Seven enormous stars crowded in the middle of the nebula, circling in complex orbits as they stole gas from each other. Their intense radiation shone through the scattered hydrogen, oxygen, and neon clouds.
"Darksaber" (hardcover)
pg.56: The stormtroopers formed a tight and comforting honor guard around Daala as she strode down the fused corridors into the bedrock. Supreme Warlork Harrsk had estabished his stronghold on a rocky planet that orbited close to a red giant star. Its surface crust remained soft and cracked, seeping lava like an oozing wound. In orbit giant solar smelters provided energy and processed raw material to construct Harrsk's personal fleet of Imperial-class Star Destroyers.
pg.56: Daala thought of the unexploited military strength in the safe shadow of Harrsk's planet, where ripping rays from the red giant could not damage the ships' systems.pg.340: Near the center of the Cauldron Nebula, the two surviving Star Destroyers hung poised and ready to launch their attack on Coruscant.
"Heir to the Empire"
pg.140-141: "We're in Nkllon's shadow," Han told her, nodding toward the starless mass directly ahead of them.
"Incredible. Do you realize you can actually see part of the solar corona from here?" "Yeah, well, don't ask me to take you out for a closer look, " Han told her. "Those shieldships aren't just for show, you know--the sunlight out there is strong enough to fry every sensor we have in a few seconds and take the Falcon's hull off a couple of minutes later."pg.134: "Nkllon's a superhot planet--way too close to its sun for any normal ship to get to without getting part of its hull peeled off."
"Essential Guide to Planets and Moons"
pg. 140 "Lando Calrissian has a reputation as a smuggler, gambler, and ladies man, but he is also a consummate capitalist who likes to think big. Nomad city on the molten planet Nkllon was Lando's most ambitious project in a long and impressive career."
So, to summarize:
Both Harrsk's Planet and Nkllon are orbiting close to their respective suns, neither of which are so close as to actually be in the sun's chromosphere, and ships are safe in the respective planet's shadow. Both suns give off sunlight so strong they can damage the hull of a ship. Both planets have molten surfaces. Both planets are habitable by either staying in the planet's dark side (Nkllon) or living underground (Nkllon, Harrsk's Planet)
"Heir to the Empire"
pg.160: "Such as taking a shuttle or living module and burying it underground," Lando said, a gleam coming in to his eye. "We put it right by the dawn line, and within a few hours you'd be under direct sunlight."
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There could be a couple of orders magnitude difference between Athega and the Red Giant in "Darksaber" |
Then the red giant would have to be more powerful than Athega, and impart the same energies on a closely orbiting planet, that is farther away than Athega is from Nkllon. Either way, both instances would be the same to a Star Destroyer. The only difference is is the exotic energy imparted by Athega which damages Star Destroyers.
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In "Dark Apprentice", even though the Star Destroyers are in the middle of the nebula, a few million km isn't going to make much of a difference - they'll still be near the stars, but again nowhere near as close as in "Heir to the Empire", so not getting anywhere near as much energy from them, and so well within the safe limits again. |
Ok, let's go over this slowly...
The Star Destroyers were in the center of the nebula, and so were the seven blue giant stars. Since the Star Destroyers weren't IN the seven blue giant stars, we are left with the fact that the Star Destroyers were in very close proximity to the stars. So...how are SEVEN BLUE GIANT STARS in close proximity going to be LESS energetic than ONE star, unless there's something very strange about that one star?
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A few hundred thousand or even couple million kms aren't going to take them particularly far from the exact centre. Unless you think all seven stars and ISDs were within a few km of each other at the exact centre of the nebula. |
Not only do I believe it, but it's true. Let's review...again:
"Dark Apprentice" (Hardcover:)
pg.342: The Sun Crusher's sensor panels became useless in the ionized discharge from the knot of blue-giant stars that illuminated the Cauldron Nebula.
He piloted the Sun Crusher toward the bloated super-giants at the heart of the nebula.
pg.343: A screen popped up, displaying a diagram of closely orbiting spheres. Seven enormous stars crowded in the middle of the nebula, circling in complex orbits as they stole gas from each other. Their intense radiation shone through the scattered hydrogen, oxygen, and neon clouds.
pg.348: "Full about!" she shouted. "One hundred eighty degrees, maximum
speed. Get out of the nebula now!"
Kratas scrambled to the navigation station himself. The Gorgon lurched as
the sublight engines kicked in, spinning the enormous Star Destroyer about.
pg.349: The sublight engines powered up, blasting as they lumbered away from the center of the nebula, picking up speed.pg.340: Near the center of the Cauldron Nebula, the two surviving Star Destroyers hung poised and ready to launch their attack on Coruscant.
If you have any evidence to support the Star Destroyers and the stars themselves being "A few hundred thousand or even couple million kms" from "the exact centre" to contradict the sources above, please present them.
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We know from simple common sense they must be further away (or they'd be getting as much energy, and therefor having asmuch difficulty |
Seeing as they were at the center of the nebula along with SEVEN highly active blue-giant stars, and the nebula served to capture and magnify these energies all around them, and the Harrsk's planet example, and the deep core example, your "common sense" falls in the face of the facts. Which is, Star Destroyers CAN take large amounts of stellar radiation in several examples EXCEPT Athega. Which anyone can clearly see this MUST MEAN there is something highly strange about Athega. The seven blue giant stars couldn't POSSIBLY be putting out LESS energy than ONE run-of-the-mill star.
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Seven blue giant stars COULD POSSIBLY be putting out LESS energy than ONE other blue giant or supergiant star, as was assumed here |
Why, unless you are calling for a special circumstance. Your conclusions make no sense. Mine do. Your conclusions aren't suppoorted by any evidence. Mine are. In the graphic novel "Classic Star Wars vol. 3, the Executor is in close proximity to a sun as well:
Star Destroyer Executor closely orbiting Yavin's sun from "Classic Star Wars 3" graphic novel.
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A very orange sun - a very cool sun - a case where they would be experiencing far less energy than I used. |
A G-type star, since it was Yavin's sun. And the Executor was in close proximity to it. And strangely enough, Athega looks just the same. "A very orange sun", as you say:
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I'm not claiming special circumstances—only that Athega was about as powerful as a star can get, whilst the rest of them weren't |
You are calling for a special circumstance to prove that Athega can be more powerful than seven blue-giant stars. Now who is being scientifically ignorant? Barring that, you're attempting to place Daala's Star Destroyers trillions of kilometers away from these seven blue-giant stars, with no proof. The novel says Daala's ships and the blue giants are at the center of the nebula. This isn't an astronomical observation that's presented in the novel, but an objective one.
You're also calling for a special circumstance to say that the red giant in "Darksaber" is somehow cooler than Athega, even though both have closely orbiting planets, yet Harrsk's planet seems the worse for wear, although BOTH are said to be rocky. You assert that Nkllon is closer to Athega than Harrsk's planet is to the red giant, with zero proof.
The only conclusion we have left is to say some sort of exotic energy is being blasted out of Athega, since Star Destroyers in similar circumstances have not had the same trouble they did in close proximity to Athega.
So either Harrsk's planet is closer to the red giant star than Nkllon is to Athega, or Harrsk's planet is FARTHER away from its primary than Nkllon is to Athega, which would make the red giant hotter from farther away. Well, it can't be closer than Nkllon is to Athega, or it would be consumed by its sun.
"Heir To The Empire"
pg.145: The Star Destroyer itself didn't worry him--if Lando's descriptions of the sunlight's intensity were right, the big ship itself was probably helpless by now, its sensors and maybe even a fair amount or its armament vaporized right off the hull.pg.144: "Imperial Star Destroyer," Lando said quietly, "Coming in fast toward the planetary shadow."
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The only reason to believe Athega is putting out any form of exotic energy is scientific ignorance and a desire to over-inflate the conclusions. |
No, the only reason to dismiss both these very similar instances is to willfully and stubbornly hang on to a mistaken belief, proven wrong by many sources, that an ISD can't stand to be in direct sunlight too close to a star. You stubbornly hold on to a mistaken belief that a Star Destroyer can't stand to be in close proximity to a star based on ONE example, and your refusal to accept other examples to the contrary, one of which is an exact match for Athega/Nkllon situation assuming NO exotic properties to Athega.
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Star-forming nebulae are typicalyl measured in light years. When your diameter is about 9 trillion kilometres a few million km isn't going to make much difference. |
Unless you're trying to justify your mistaken claim that the Star Destroyers and blue giants weren't in close proximity to one another, which is contradicted by "Dark Apprentice". Both being in the center of the nebula doesn't disprove that they weren't a few THOUSAND kilometers from the stars.
Let's cut through the bullshit here. Your initial argument was that Star Destroyers can't go near a sun like the Enterprise-D can with metaphasic shields, and you bring up Nkllon, and then a vague reference that has nothing to do with Star Destroyers in "Rebel Dawn".
As pointed out to you with numerous official examples, Athega is the exception, not the rule. Now you had a choice to accept that Athega is either a superhot, intense star, or its putting out some form of exotic energy that other stars in which Star Destroyers are in close proximity of aren't. You then waffle and say that Athega was as hot as a sun could get, which is admitting that is the exception, not the rule, without really conceding. Then you refuse to accept that a Star Destroyer in orbit over Harrsk's planet is in the same proximity to a star as Nkllon is to Athega given the quotes from "Heir To The Empire" and "Darksaber", and the conditions of both rocky planets.
You have no basis to refuse this, as both novels say virtually the same thing, with Harrsk's planet seeming to take a worse beating from the primary. So now we are back to the "exotic energy" claim, since you can't accept the official materials and have no basis not to.